Johannesburg – Former SOE Minister Malusi Gigaba has denied any involvement in the looting of SOEs by the controversial Gupta family.
On Wednesday, Gigaba and its legal team avoided answering the question of whether Gigaba accepts cash payments and where it gets the money from.
Testifying this morning from Transnet to the Judicial Commission of Inquiry into the State Capture Allegations, Gigaba’s representative asked Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo that he had informed Evidence Officer Anton Myburgh that Gigaba needed more time to review this affidavit.
Myburgh had said he gave the Gigaba representative the affidavit by email yesterday regarding the cash payment of tuition fees over the years, but insisted he only had one question.
Since the Gigaba team needed more time, Zondo asked them to set a deadline for this affidavit and it was decided on Friday.
Myburgh asked Gigaba if he heard Paul Holden’s testimony yesterday, which Gigaba said he didn’t.
Myburgh told Gigaba that the evidence presented by the cash flow shows that the extent of the Gupta looting is quite mind-boggling, to which Gigaba replied, “Yes.”
Myburgh said yesterday that the cost to the state had risen from Rand 49 billion to Rand 57 billion. He said the Guptas engaged in coordinated projects and looted the state. “Would you be okay with that?” he asked Gigaba.
“I’m not sure I agree with that, nor do I want to dispute anything. I guess the leader of evidence is making statements, ”Gigaba said.
Myburgh said subsequent looting took place under Gigaba’s tenure as minister of public enterprises in relation to public entities, in particular Transnet.
“It was alleged that evidence was presented, it certainly does not mean that I was involved. I have said that nothing that has been presented here brings me any closer to money.
“I did not see the money, I did not take the money, I did not give the money anywhere, I was not part of the contracts as far as it happened during my tenure it would be pure coincidence, ”said Gigaba.
Myburgh said the Guptas could not have completed the project of plundering this sophistication without Gigaba being there.
“Let’s establish the principle here, that if I am asked a question, I am not in court. I can answer a question as best I can. I was not told that there is a prescribed way to respond, that is not true, ”said Gigaba.
Zondo stepped in, saying Myburgh hadn’t said that either, all he was saying was he still had to come up with a proposal he was telling you.
“How was I involved? Gigaba said.
Gigaba said the looting of state-owned enterprises was unfortunate.
Myburgh asked Gigaba to confirm whether he was finance minister when the Financial Intelligence Center Bill was signed on April 26, 2017, which he confirmed.
Myburgh also asked Gigaba to confirm whether at that time South Africa was under pressure from the International Financial Action Task Force (FATF) to get the FICA bill started, which Gigaba confirmed.
Myburgh said South Africa could have been said to be in violation of its international commitments regarding its anti-money laundering legislation. Gigaba responded by saying that South Africa is a sovereign nation, it reserves the right to ensure that any legislation to be passed will be subject to the law and the Constitution.
“There are many international bodies to which South Africa belongs, many of them from time to time apply pressure on issues that we would have agreed to. South Africa is no exception in this regard as countries would always want to exercise their sovereign right not to pass legislation or law or policy without reviewing it, guaranteeing the laws of that country.
“There was nothing special here, it would be a sad day if we came to the conclusion that international bodies can simply impose on us any policy that we have to sign without being satisfied. We have a Parliament that doesn’t just receive legislation and pass it, there are processes to be undertaken before a decision is made, ”said Gigaba.
Myburgh asked Gigaba if he was a member of the Justice Crime Prevention and Security (JCPS) (JCPS) cluster in 2016, to which Gigaba said: “I was a member of the JCPS but it does not consist of the only Minister of Interior or Malusi Gigaba, which is why the submission of Mr. Momonied, who was Deputy Director General at the National Treasury, is not only malicious, it is misleading in the sense that while the JCPS cluster was concerned about certain aspects of the legislation of the bill amending the FCIA, it was not me as an individual and it was not the Ministry of the Interior that was concerned.
“There were several departments involved,” including State Security, Defense and several others. That is why, when I became Minister of Finance, I tried to facilitate a meeting with the ministries concerned in order to resolve this problem. That is why the bill was subsequently adopted.
Zondo then apologized to Gigaba.
Gigaba denies any involvement in looting of state-owned enterprises, “pure coincidence” happened during his tenure
SourceGigaba denies any involvement in looting of state-owned enterprises, “pure coincidence” happened during his tenure